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MDV 581 · Abram Davidovich Kaplan

Mohyliv-Podil's'kyy, Ukraine 19 May 2003 Interviewed by Dov-Ber Kerler Part 2 of 3 62 min · 3 passages

One conversation with Abram Davidovich Kaplan, continuing over MDV 581, MDV 582.

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Passages

0:00

Kaplan expresses the view that Ukrainian Jews should care about their own history and laments how all the religious and scholarly Jewish leaders in today’s Ukraine are foreigners from USA and Israel rather than local Jews. Expanding on this point, Kaplan explains that organizations such as the Joint (American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee) and the Sochnut (The Jewish Agency for Israel) have unfairly encouraged post-Soviet Jews to leave the countries of their birth. He presents a series of reasons why he believes Jews in the former Soviet Union should not emigrate from their native lands: "I see it like this: one must not drive anyone away. In Ukraine, Russia, Georgia, indeed everywhere... Jews should still be living there because they have been living there for thousands of years already... so that Jewishness should be present throughout the world". Instead of making Jews leave their homes, states Kaplan, the Joint and other organizations should help them stay and maintain a good standard of living there. Kaplan further states his belief that if the leaders of these international Jewish organizations want to know the truth about Jewish life, they should come to the shtetlekh and smaller communities to see what happens there. Kaplan then details the activities of the town’s contemporary Jewish Sunday School, which is run by an educator from Vinnytsya who teaches Hebrew among other subjects. While Kaplan was born in 1933 in Mohyliv-Podil’s’kyy, his parents where born in smaller villages nearby. His mother Minikhe Velvls (who worked as a teacher of Russian language and literature) and her family came to Mohyliv-Podil’s’kyy from Ozaryntsi, a village 10km away. His father Duvid b”r Avrum (who worked as a soap maker) and his family came from Slydy. His paternal grandfather was “like a Rov” and was a bal-tfile (prayer leader) in his town’s synagogue. When the family moved to Mohyliv-Podil’s’kyy in 1924, this grandfather worked as a cantor. Kaplan takes great pride in his 30 years service in the army (starting in 1951) and is proud of the fact that his twin brother Lev/Leyb and grandchildren have also served. Kaplan grew up in a traditionally religious Jewish home, but did not learn in the local kheyder (religious school for boys), but with a melamed (private teacher) named Tseburskii for four years. From these lessons he learned numerous stories, how to pray, and how to read and write in Yiddish. While in the army, Kaplan says that he forgot how to read, write, and speak in Yiddish, only re-learning how to speak the language since returning to Mohyliv-Podil’s’kyy and working in the local Jewish community. His formal education was exclusively in Russian-language institutions.

From the machine transcript

Kaplan argues that Jews should not be pushed to emigrate from Ukraine, Russia or Georgia, and criticizes the Joint and the Sochnut. He asks why Jewish research is left to Americans, and says that visiting leaders and Jewish organizations should come to the small towns to see the truth. He recounts conversations with Kerler about politics, communism and the Zionist aim of bringing Jews to Israel. He also complains about leaders in Kyiv and Vinnytsya who give little help, about unfair distribution of trips abroad, and about corruption in the Jewish movement. He describes the Sunday school run by a teacher from Vinnytsya who teaches Hebrew, history and tradition. He gives his parents' origins in Ozaryntsi and Slydy and says his paternal grandfather served as prayer leader and later as cantor. He mentions the burning of Jews at Ozaryntsi in the war, his twin brother, his army service from 1951 and the army service of his son and grandchildren. He recalls studying with the melamed Tseburskii for four years, and says he later forgot Yiddish in the army and relearned speaking it in the community.

adds the Madlen Kann (?) / Kora Shvarts (?) gifts and contacts and the visit of a woman from Paris; Kerler's discussion of politics; and the Ozaryntsi burning.

31:17

Kaplan also sings two songs: A Postekhl (A Shepherd) and Azoy neyt a shnayder (So Sews a Tailor).

Singing Songs and music · MCO
From the machine transcript

Kaplan sings a Yiddish song about a shepherd whose sheep scatter, then begins a song about a tailor sewing. He says he also knows a ghetto song.

32:27

Kaplan shows the interviewers his Party membership card for the Communist Party. In the army, Kaplan says he experienced no anti-Semitism because of his serious sense of duty, a quality he now brings to his work in the Jewish community. Kaplan knew many other Jews in the army, including his commander. Anti-Semitism, Kaplan says, however, has been, is and will continue to be in the world, even in Germany and Israel amongst the Jews themselves. Kaplan also answers a series of questions related to sociolinguistics and dialectology, sharing the meaning of various words and idioms. He also remembers various culinary traditions, including his mother’s gefilte fish and homemade horseradish, pitse (calf’s hooves), mandlekh (soup nuts), latkes, mamelige, melay (a baked cornmeal bread), homemade wine, vaynshl nalifke (a kind of cherry liquor) and specific holiday recipes related to Passover and Chanukah. During the war, Kaplan was at first in the ghetto in Mohyliv-Podil’s’kyy and later sent to the camp in Pechera. From there, his family fled to the town of Zhurin, only to be brought back to Pechera before fleeing to Chernivtsi (Kleyn Tshernovits). In the latter town today, Kaplan relates, there are only five or six Jews left, two of whom were recently killed by their neighbors who, upon seeing the Jews assemble their belongings to emigrate from Ukraine, murdered them and stole their money.

From the machine transcript

Kaplan talks about his army service, including a Party document shown to the interviewers and a visit by an Israeli guest (Buchbinder) whom he guided around the area, followed by an Israeli television programme whose commentary angered him. He says he never met antisemitism in the army, attributes this to his dutifulness, and mentions Jewish commanders. He says antisemitism has existed and will exist everywhere, including Germany and Israel, and distinguishes good, bad and neutral people. Kerler then asks about expressions and terms (a good place for a cemetery, a good Jew, a good eye and envy, Lithuanian Jews and their speech). Kaplan describes his mother's gefilte fish, home-made horseradish, Passover and Hanukkah foods, mamaliga and malay, and home-made liquor, and says his father was a soap-maker and his mother a teacher. He recalls the ghetto in Mohyliv, the camp at Pechera and flight to Zhurin and Chernivtsi, and reports the recent murder of two Jews there by neighbours who robbed them. Kerler ends with further questions on words such as dybbuk, golem, a blessing for the dead, luck, house, group, skin, mouse and window glass.

Adds the Israeli television episode, Lithuanian Jews, kinship with food and the father's soap trade, and the extended word-meaning questions beyond the catalogue's summary.