Kogan speaks about prewar religious life in Bershad, particularly Hasidism from Bratslav. Kogan states that he barely attended services before the war. The team then concludes the interview with Kogan.
From the machine transcript
Kerler asks about Bratslav Hasidim who used to come to Bershad, about the old synagogue and about Bershad prayer shawls. The speaker's replies, on seeing the shochet and going to the synagogue as a child, are only partly clear. The group then says goodbye.
The transcript shows mainly Kerler's questions, and a goodbye to the speaker and the others present.
The team travels with Shveibish through Tulchyn, headed to the next formal interview with Yurkovetskij.
From the machine transcript
The group talks in the car with the guide, who is directing the driver through Tul'chyn. Kerler asks whether the young people present know any Yiddish. The guide, speaking Russian, points out old Jewish houses to photograph and tells the driver where to stop.
On the way to the next interview, Shveibish provides a tour of a former Jewish neighborhood in Tulchyn. She also lists the names of former residents and points out former Jewish stores.
From the machine transcript
Shveibish (the guide) shows the group a former Jewish house with a cellar entrance in the old Jewish quarter. She says that many Jews, eight households, lived here and that a Jewish shop stood nearby. She recalls the maker of a shop or dress item, Abraham Rubin (?) of Odessa (?). Part of the stretch is Russian or garbled.
Names a former resident and points out Jewish shops, as the catalogue says.
Shveibish briefly speaks about her training as a nurse in Tulchyn and then Vinnytsya after the war. She then addresses the prewar and postwar Jewish population of a Tulchyn neighborhood.
From the machine transcript
The guide continues about the site: a medical school was here after the war, where she studied nursing (?) before going on to Vinnytsia. She says travellers once stopped overnight at a Jewish house here, that Jews still lived here after the war and that non-Jews live here now. Kerler and Lemster ask about visitors from Israel and about the many synagogues before the war.
Shveibish addresses the prewar synagogue structure of Tulchyn and prewar local Jewish life. Shveibish and the team get back into the van and Shveibish continues her tour of the former Jewish neighborhood.
From the machine transcript
The guide discusses the quarter and the many prewar synagogues of Tul'chyn, and says Jews outnumbered non-Jews on every street. After the war the Jews scattered across the world. The group then gets back into the van and the guide points out more Jewish houses; much of the Russian is garbled.
The team and Shveibish arrive at Yurkovetskij's house and greet him and his wife Spectrovna, before they set up the formal interview.
From the machine transcript
The group arrives at Yurkovetskij's house and the guide introduces them. Kerler and Lemster greet him and his wife and explain that they want a Yiddish interview. They discuss whether to sit inside or outside.
The formal interview with Yurkovetskij begins. He speaks about his family and provides personal information. Yurkovetskij raised two sons who live in America, as well as one daughter.
From the machine transcript
The formal interview with Yurkovetskij begins. Kerler states the date, 27 May 2007, and the place, and asks his name, his father's name, and year and place of birth. Yurkovetskij says he was born on 25 November 1917 in Tul'chyn. He mentions that he has two sons in America and a daughter in Tul'chyn, and that he gave a family photograph for a museum.
Gives year and place of birth, and the two sons in America.
Yurkovetskij talks about his childhood and family. He grew up as an orphan with two older brothers and was raised by his maternal grandmother. He lost his parents during the pogroms of 1919. Yurkovetskij's father was a barber and his parents were also born in Tulchyn.
From the machine transcript
Yurkovetskij recalls how his parents, grandfather and a sister were killed in the 1919 pogrom, when he was a year and three months old. He and two brothers were left orphans and raised by their maternal grandmother, a native of Tul'chyn. His father was a barber.
Yurkovetskij speaks about his life and family before the war during the Soviet period. He worked as driver for fifty-three years. His older brother supported the family by continuing his father's barber business. One of his brother immigrated to America.
From the machine transcript
Yurkovetskij says he worked as a driver for fifty-three years in Tul'chyn. The family lived on the barber's trade, and the eldest brother began working in a barbershop at twelve or fifteen. The grandmother took in lodgers in the large house they had on Lenin Street near the market. Lemster asks about the years before the war.
Yurkovetskij discusses his childhood memories of Tulchyn. He explains how a priest saved him from the pogroms and then lived at an orphanage until he began schooling. Yurkovetskij then addresses his education and work training. He attended a Ukrainian school for five years and then completed chauffeur courses in Bratslav. Yurkovetskij then speaks about his childhood years and recalls poverty at home.
From the machine transcript
Yurkovetskij tells of being taken in by a Polish priest and then of the village, before going to a Ukrainian school (not a Yiddish one). In 1936 he was sent to driving courses at a machine and tractor station in Bratslav. One brother was killed in the war and the other went to America. He remembers a poor childhood: playing football in worn shoes and getting help from Jews at Passover.
Yurkovetskij speaks about his life and family before the war. He remembers how the community helped his family. Yurkovetskij then talks about prewar Passover celebrations at home. He states that he began working as chauffeur in 1936.
From the machine transcript
Yurkovetskij says the grandmother did not go to synagogue, but they kept Passover as best they could in poverty, with matzo and only a few eggs. By 1936 he had become a driver and the grandmother had died. He says he married in 1937, shortly before being called into the army.
Passover is described as poor, and the 1937 marriage is mentioned.
Yurkovetskij addresses his life before the war, particularly his wedding in 1937. He was drafted into the Red Army in 1937. He then talks about his family.
From the machine transcript
Yurkovetskij says his wedding was modest, held among poor people. He had three children: an eldest son in Pittsburgh (?), another son in America and a daughter in Tul'chyn. Kerler asks about Yiddish at home, and Yurkovetskij says they spoke Yiddish with neighbours but did not attend a Yiddish school. Kerler then asks about non-Jews who spoke Yiddish.
Adds the wedding, the children's whereabouts and the language question.
Yurkovetskij addresses non-Jews who spoke Yiddish in prewar Tulchyn. In particular, he shares an episode about "Misha Katsop," who smuggled a Torah scroll to the Jewish inmates in the Pechera concentration camp.
From the machine transcript
Yurkovetskij says a neighbour speaks Yiddish better than he does. Her father Misha Katsop (?), a Christian shoemaker, spoke Yiddish and brought a Torah scroll into the Pechera camp. Katsop is a nickname.
Yurkovetskij and Shveibish talk about Jewish life in the Pechera camp. He recalls a kosher butcher and a rabbi. He then speaks about underground economy in the camp and states that Jews of Tulchyn hid their possessions in basements. Yurkovetskij then addresses his life and family's life in the camp. Yurkovetskij explains that he frequently drove to Tulchyn as chauffeur.
From the machine transcript
Lemster asks whether there was a rabbi in the Pechera camp. Yurkovetskij and the guide recall a rabbi and shochet, and a pious Jew who kept the dietary laws there. He also talks about Jews selling hidden gold, begging in villages, and the camp as a ghetto. He often drove from the camp to Tul'chyn to fetch rags and clothing.
Adds the shochet and Jewish observance.
Yurkovetskij speaks about his life during World War II, when he was driven out of Tulchyn to Pechera. He then addresses his draft, when he was ordered to a military school in Odesa. Yurkovetskij mentions that the draft notice came a day after his son's circumcision in 1941. According to him, he was supposed to be discharged from his military service a day before the war broke out in 1941 and was sent to the front in the infantry regiment instead. Yurkovetskij then speaks about his injury and return to Tulchyn, where he was imprisoned in the ghetto. Yurkovetskij's wife and children evacuated to Kyrgyzstan.
From the machine transcript
Yurkovetskij says his wife evacuated with the children to Frunze in Kyrgyzstan. He recalls a day in 1941 when he was called up and sent to the Odessa naval school (?). He was wounded in the right leg on 23 August 1941, was released and came back to Tul'chyn. Lemster asks why he did not follow his family.
Adds the wife's evacuation to Frunze, and the wound dated to August 1941.
Yurkovetskij talks about his family, specifically his sons' circumcision, done by a mohel from Bratslav. He maintains that since he was not a member of the Party, he did not have to fear Party exclusion.
From the machine transcript
Yurkovetskij tells how his younger son was circumcised in 1941 by a mohel from Bratslav, since there was none in Tul'chyn. The elder son had also been circumcised. The grandson in America was circumcised there. He says he was not afraid of losing a Party card because he was not a Party member.
Yurkovetskij addresses his life before the war and recalls the Great Hunger in 1933 and poverty. He also addresses prewar Jewish life in Tulchyn, including the synagogue structure. Yurkovetskij returns to his sons' circumcision in 1941 and lists names of Jewish locals who were excluded from the Party.
From the machine transcript
Yurkovetskij describes the hunger and poverty before the war, and the lack of firewood. He recalls the synagogues in Tul'chyn, which numbered more than ten, including those of the craftsmen's guilds. He tells again how he took his younger son to a mohel in Bratslav on 3 May 1941. He speaks of Communists afraid of circumcising their sons, and of Jews expelled from the Party for it.
Adds the guild synagogues and the Party fear of circumcision.
Yurkovetskij briefly recalls episodes from daily life, including starvation and food stealing in the camp.
From the machine transcript
Yurkovetskij recalls hunger in the camp and Jews stealing or taking food, such as potatoes and salt, from other prisoners and from the camp stores. He tells of one episode of beating a man and of helping a carpenter. Lemster then asks about a Jewish library or theatre.
Yurkovetskij talks about prewar and postwar Jewish cultural life in Tulchyn, including Yiddish theater performance by Ancharov.
From the machine transcript
Yurkovetskij talks about Yiddish theatre in Tul'chyn, with a travelling troupe (Ancharov) performing in the guesthouse and a play about the two Kuni Lemls. After the war, Jewish artists including a cantor, Apelbaum (?), came, and an Israeli performer at the camp site. Kerler and Lemster ask about the dybbuk.
Yurkovetskij answers questions about cultural terminology, as well as addresses prewar holiday celebration, including food customs. Yurkovetskij states that he remembers Passover because his grandmother would buy him a new pair of shoes.
From the machine transcript
Kerler asks about a golem, a dybbuk and Purim customs before the war, which Yurkovetskij does not recall. He remembers Passover because his grandmother would buy him a new pair of shoes, and describes the potato dishes eaten then. Kerler also asks about Hanukkah and a Russian-heard term, which he says he did not know.
Adds the questions on golem, dybbuk and Purim.
Yurkovetskij talks about contemporary Jewish life in Tulchyn. He then addresses postwar Jewish life in Tulchyn. Yurkovetskij and Shveibish address survival statistics, before he talks about his life during the war. Yurkovetskij was also imprisoned in the Bershad ghetto. He also addresses the ghetto conditions.
From the machine transcript
Yurkovetskij says that about forty Jews live in Tul'chyn today, and that they speak Yiddish or Russian among themselves. He says only a few came back from Pechera (a few hundred of thousands, with the guide giving other figures). Lemster asks whether camp songs existed, and he answers about the ghetto, where he was also held in Bershad, and the lice-ridden conditions.
Gives survival numbers and the question about camp songs.
Yurkovetskij speaks about his life after the war, after his wife and children returned from evacuation. Yurkovetskij describes how he built a new home in 1947. He maintains that his family could not move back into their old house because it burned down; but nevertheless had to return money to the government. According to Yurkovetskij, non-Jews returned houses to their Jewish owners after the war.
From the machine transcript
Yurkovetskij says his family house burned down during the war. After the war his wife and children returned from Kyrgyzstan and he began building a new home. The authorities nevertheless demanded he repay money for a house that no longer existed. Lemster asks about Jewish houses taken during the war, and Kerler asks how often he went to Bratslav.
Yurkovetskij talks about his life before the war. He returns to his son's circumcision in 1941. Yurkovetskij speaks about his life after the war, including Jewish cooking and wine production.
From the machine transcript
Yurkovetskij says he lived in Tul'chyn and went to Bratslav only to have his son circumcised. He describes building his present house in 1947, its cellar, and winemaking. Lemster and Kerler ask about Jewish dishes such as gefilte fish and kugel, and about the term for grated potato pancakes. They also discuss Bershad under the Romanians.
Adds the house of 1947 and food terms.
Yurkovetskij addresses his life in the Bershad ghetto, where he was imprisoned for one year. He recalls Reb Gedalye, the kosher butcher, as well as how people collected money for the partisans.
From the machine transcript
Yurkovetskij speaks of the Bershad ghetto, where he says he was held for a year. He recalls Reb Gedalye, the shochet, who was shot with about three hundred Jews after money was collected for the partisans and the Germans found the list. Lemster and Kerler ask him about the details.
Adds the shooting of about three hundred Jews.
