The team sets up the formal interview with the Kolodenkers. They discuss life today.
Setup of the interview: Kerler explains to the family that the recording is for an archive used to study Yiddish and Jewish history, and they discuss the visitors coming from America. Some talk of other people from the town and of a blessing is partly garbled.
Lev Kolodenko talks about his life during World War II. He was drafted for military training in the Voroshilovgrad Province and then sent to the Urals, before fighting on the front. Lev was trained in an artillery school and graduated as sergeant. He describes his experiences during training and when he was in command of seven soldiers on the front through Poland to Berlin. Lev also briefly addresses his father's fate during the war. He fought in the First Belarusian Front under Zhukov.
Lev tells of being sixteen when the war began, of young people being gathered and sent to Voroshilovgrad province in Ukraine and then to the Urals, and of evacuees there. He says his father was taken into the army and did not return. At eighteen he was drafted, finished artillery training as a sergeant, commanded seven soldiers, and fought under Zhukov through Poland and across the Vistula toward Warsaw and Berlin.
adds his father being drafted and not returning, and the route through Poland to Berlin
Lev provides personal information and talks about his family. His father was also born in Tulchyn and worked as coachman. He then addresses the fate of the Tulchyn community when the Germans occupied the region in 1941. Lev describes forced assemblies, disinfection in the local Yiddish school and forced marches to the Pechera concentration camp. He then speaks about his family's fate, as well as living conditions among Jews from different regions in the camp. Among other themes, Lev addresses cannibalism, forced labor, mass graves in a near-by forest and burial.
Lev gives his birth in Tul'chyn, where his father was also born, and then describes the German occupation. Families were registered by police and stripped in the bath, the old were shot or hanged on the march, and a great-aunt tried to hang herself. He describes the Pechera camp, where Jews from many districts were held behind fences, hunger and deaths, and the pits in the forest where the dead and the shot were buried, some after digging their own graves.
adds a doctor (a non-Jew) in the camp and the great-aunt's attempted suicide on the march
Lev speaks about commemoration of the Pechera camp. He also addresses Yenta's family's fate in the camp.
Lev speaks of a memorial obelisk made at the Pechera site where many Jews were killed. Yenta recounts her father's three sisters in the camp, one of whom carried out her dead children day after day and made up a song about it. Her husband came back from the army to find seven children born and lost in the camp.
adds the story of the woman who composed a song after losing seven children
Pesia recites the words of a Yiddish song they heard from a woman in the camp. Lev then mentions how Ukrainian acquaintances threw food over the camp's fences. Alexandr explains the occupational structure of the camp, before Pesia shares episodes of daily life, including water acquisition from the Southern Bug river and living arrangements. She also talks about her family's life in the camp.
Pesia gives the words of a camp song, then Lev recalls how his father, a coachman, was helped by Ukrainian acquaintances who threw food parcels over the fence. Kerler asks about Romanian and German guards on the two sides of the Southern Bug, and a word for plain water is explained. Aleksandr describes the crowded rooms, and Pesia speaks of the thirst, the water, her mother and Bukovinian Jews in the camp.
adds Kerler's questions on the guards and a word explained to him
Pesia recalls the moment when she fell sick with typhus and mentions cannibalism in the Pechera camp. She speaks about other inmates and recalls the help of her former neighbor, Ayzik who worked as barber, "visiting" the camp. Pesia then shares more episodes about daily life, including violence by the Ukrainian police during food acquisition. They also mention the persecution of a Ukrainian police officer after the liberation.
Pesia recounts falling ill with high fever in the camp, her mother, and a neighbour Ayzik who helped them. She describes begging in nearby villages for bread, the cruelty of Ukrainian policemen, and a Jew shot over something he bought from a villager. Kerler asks about a Yiddish word for icicles.
adds the shooting of a Jew and an exchange about the Yiddish word for icicles
Pesia talks about an episode from the Pechera camp, when she was forced to go into the river. She explains how she received help from a young Romanian group that spent time by the river, while a police officer watched. Pesia also recalls daily deaths, burial and numbers of victims.
Pesia tells how she nearly drowned in the river while a policeman watched, and how young Romanians from Bukovina made a chain of hands to rescue her. She describes daily deaths in the camp, among them a woman with six children, the burial and the pits. Kerler asks how many lie there, and a figure of fifteen thousand is mentioned (?).
Lev talks about his life after the war, including the relationship to non-Jewish neighbors. Yenta and Lev spent eleven years in Israel and frequently visited Tulchyn. Yenta then speaks about her family. She has one sister.
Lev says non-Jews helped Jews in the camp, then speaks about later life: about ten years in Israel (eleven by Yenta), and eight or nine return visits to Tul'chyn, where a Christian neighbour kept their house. They describe loneliness in Israel, a brother and sister in Tul'chyn, their son and grandchildren, and Yenta's age.
adds Kerler's question on the length of stay, a Christian neighbour and relatives in Tul'chyn
Pesia returns to daily life in the camp. She specifically addresses hygiene, starvation, as well as remembers formerly wealthy inmates. Alexandr also provides a picture of camp life.
Pesia describes camp conditions: hygiene, starvation, and well-off inmates, including a wealthy family from Mohyliv(?) and a well-dressed Bukovinian girl who died soon after. The others add reflections on camp life, including shaved heads.
Lev and Pesia address Ukrainian contemporary politics and reflections on the Great Hunger in 1932/33.
Lev and Pesia discuss current Ukrainian politics and the Great Hunger of 1932–33. They argue about how the famine is described and blame the Soviet grain requisitions. Pesia also says kulaks hid grain in cellars.
Pesia provides personal information, before Lev addresses his life before the war. He worked in the Tulchyn shoe factory. They also briefly discuss life in the postwar Soviet period, including leisure activities.
Kerler asks Pesia about her illness in the camp. Lev then speaks of working at fifteen in the Tul'chyn factory, of factories closing, prices and cooperative housing in the Soviet period, and of leisure with music. He says Tul'chyn had fifteen thousand Jews before the war.
adds the figure for Tul'chyn's prewar Jewish population
Lev speaks about prewar Jewish life in Tulchyn. Pesia addresses prewar cultural life, as well as her education at a Yiddish school for five years.
Lev and Pesia speak about prewar Tul'chyn: Yiddish was heard on the streets, there were Yiddish theatre and schools. Pesia says she completed five classes at a Yiddish school, though her parents wanted it. Kerler asks until when Yiddish was heard on the streets.
Lev talks about his life after the war, including how he fixed up his house. They then talk about life today. Alexandr and Yenta then provide personal information.
Lev tells how he rebuilt his house after the war with the help of a Ukrainian specialist, and they chat about life today. Kerler asks Yenta and Aleksandr their ages, and her maiden name is given as Tolkovitz; the passage ends with Kerler asking what it means to be a Jew.
adds Kerler's question on what it means to be a Jew
Lev surveys Jewish history, before Yenta addresses postwar religious life in Tulchyn. Her father was a baker and frequently attended services after the war. Lev's mother was born in Tomashpil.
Lev surveys Jewish history (Solomon, David), and Kerler asks how Solomon is said in Yiddish. Yenta says that after the war her father, a baker, always went to pray in his tallis. Tomashpil is named as the birthplace of a mother, whose is not clear.
adds Yenta's father's work as a baker and the exchange about a Yiddish name for Solomon
Lev talks about antisemitic sentiments concerning Jews not fighting in the war. Yenta then provides personal information.
Lev and Yenta speak about Jewish war heroes and honours, and about Jews' part in the war. Kerler then asks Lev to talk about his medals. The passage is badly garbled.
the catalogue mentions antisemitism and personal information, which the transcript does not clearly show
Lev explains his military awards and decorations. He then speaks about his achievments and positive feedback from his soldiers. Lev states that he did not get an award due to antisemitism in the Red Army.
Lev shows and explains his medals, for the liberation of Warsaw, the capture of Berlin and victory over Germany, and notes an Israeli award bearing a menorah. He tells how he led his soldiers across the Spree and was not decorated, which he attributes to antisemitism. A Gypsy colonel (Gumerov?) and a Polish soldier named Skibitsky(?) figure in the story, and Lev says he had it from his soldiers that he was a good sergeant. Much is in Russian.
Lev talks about his military achievements, before he discusses his service in the Red Army after the war. Lev explains that he was too young to be demobilized when the war ended. He was sent to Saransk, Mordovia and was discharged in 1950, after seven years of service in the artillery division.
Kolodenker discusses a mix-up in his documents and surname with other family members, who join in; the passage then turns to his army service. After the war he was sent to Mordovia (Saransk) because he was too young to be demobilised. He served seven years in the artillery, and says he returned to Tul'chyn around 1950.
Opens with the family discussing a documents and surname mix-up, which the catalogue does not mention.
Lev speaks about his life and work after the war, when returned from his military service to Tulchyn. He took chauffeur lessons and worked as truck driver. Lev then talks about his family, particularly his son.
Kolodenker speaks about learning to drive and working as a driver after the war. He then talks about his son, an engineer who works on Japanese equipment and lives in Canada; Kerler asks about him.
The son's occupation and residence in Canada.
Pesia speaks about Jewish life before the war, particularly recalling the Great Hunger of 1932/33. Specifically, she describes how her grandmother would collect scraps in the cafeteria she worked at. Pesia also describes persecution during the Great Purge (1934 to 1939), as well as talks about her family. They also mention wealthy local people.
Pesia Kolodenker describes the famine of 1933 in Tul'chyn: her grandmother's work and how a non-Jewish woman brought grain and a cow to the family. She mentions wealthy people, including non-Jews, who were deported. Kerler and the others then discuss what made someone wealthy and whether Tul'chyn had Jewish millionaires.
Also covers deportation of wealthy people and a discussion of Jewish millionaires.
Yenta talks about her family. Pesia then addresses Jewish naming customs. Yenta and Lev speak about their life in Israel.
Yenta Kolodenker's father's names (Usher, Khayim and Pinkhes) are discussed, followed by Pesia on naming a child after a deceased relative and for protection. The talk turns to Israel and America: the Yiddish spoken in Israel, Pesia's years there, prices and the families' children abroad.
Includes discussion of life in Israel and America, and of Yiddish there.
Pesia talks about prewar Jewish life in Tulchyn, particularly wedding celebrations and customs. Lev and Yenta also speak about contemporary local life.
Pesia and others describe a Jewish wedding in prewar Tul'chyn: the music, dancing until morning and the sharing of cake among relatives, and a dance with the in-laws (the transcript is unclear). They go on to talk about mothers-in-law and daughters-in-law and about living alone, and an anecdote about a man from Moscow who bought a house in Israel.
Includes the Moscow man's anecdote and talk of mothers-in-law.
Pesia speaks about prewar Jewish life and mentions anecdotes about the wealthy Jew Roytshulem (Sholem Royt). Pesia states that her school organized excursions to his house.
Pesia tells about the rich Jew Roytshulem, who was said to have hidden in his own vault with his gold. Kerler asks about the sources, where his house stood and the sites connected with Count Potocki; Pesia says her school took the children on an excursion there. Several people then talk about hunger and bread in the 1930s.
Includes the sites and sources of the Potocki palace and bread hunger.
Yenta talks about her family. Yenta then speaks about prewar Jewish life in Tulchyn and recalls poverty. Pesia also addresses prewar religious life and mentions a local synagogue. Lev shares an episode where they officials would not allow an extension of the synagogue.
Yenta and Pesia recall children and Yom Kippur in a prewar street, and a large synagogue on Shul gas with painted birds. Pesia describes a quarrel between rabbis over building it and the local authorities' refusal to extend it. Lev and others discuss Count Potocki's role; Kerler asks for clarification.
Starts with Kerler asking about weddings and Pesia's father as a prayer leader; the passage mostly covers the synagogue.
Pesia speaks about prewar life and how a local synagogue building was used as granary before the war. According to Pesia, the community could not agree on how to build the synagogue. Lev then speaks more about the construction of the synagogue.
Pesia and Lev tell how the large synagogue, built in a dispute with Count Potocki, was later used to store grain; they recount an accident with a brick and a bird. Kerler says he does not fully follow the story of the building and asks for clarification.
Kerler asks for clarification and Lev adds to the account of the building.
Lev speak about his life in Israel, before they discuss the Rebbe Nahman of Bratslav. Lev then briefly addresses pilgrimages to Bratslav in the postwar Soviet period.
Lev speaks about rich Jews in Israel and former Tul'chyn residents in Canada. The conversation turns to Rebbe Nakhman of Bratslav: visits to his resting place in Uman, and Soviet-era pilgrimages, are mentioned, followed by prices and a very old man.
The Bratslav pilgrimage is placed in the Soviet period.
Yenta speaks about prewar Jewish life, particularly traditional weddings. Pesia mentions local klezmer musicians. They then speak about life today.
Yenta recalls how late people stayed at weddings and the klezmers, including the musician Shmukhe and a man called Shoyl Tes (?), who played the clarinet. The talk then turns to present-day life and prices.
Names a klezmer and a nickname.
Lev speaks about his life and work after the war. He was a shoemaker before and after the war. In the immediate postwar period, Lev worked as truck driver. Lev retired after thirty-five years and continued to work for five more years. He also addresses living conditions today.
Lev speaks about his work before and after the war, thirty-five years as a shoemaker, and his later pension. He compares wages and prices with life today, including medals and pension supplements, and ends with a discussion of politics.
Includes pension and price comparisons.
They speak about their childhood memories of anecdotes and songs. They also address poverty and local life before the war.
Participants recall childhood in prewar Tul'chyn: songs and stories, sitting on the porch, borrowing live coals for the fire, tea from the samovar and white bread for holidays. They mention pogroms and going barefoot at Purim and Passover.
Adds a pogrom mention, shoes at Passover and Purim.
Yenta talks about Purim celebrations before the war. Lev then speaks about postwar life and leisure activities.
Kerler asks about Purim terms (shalakhmones), the Purim play and singing; the answers are brief. Others recall matchmaking and local girls. The passage ends with talk about the project, addresses and where Kerler lives in America, and about the size of Tul'chyn.
Includes the Purim questions and the talk about the archive.