Naum (Nekhemye) Samoilovich Gaiviker; Sonya (Sosye) Volkovna Gaiviker

In the Hesed office, Lemster and staff look at a portrait on the wall and try to work out who it depicts, perhaps a rabbi; the exchange is brief and mixes Yiddish and Russian.

A Hesed staff woman is asked to sing and says she cannot speak Yiddish but understands it; a song about a wedding is mentioned, and a fragment of another is attempted. Kerler explains that the team wants older songs from grandmothers, not popular ones. The staff suggest other people to visit and discuss how far the synagogue is.

Names a singing fragment and the staff's suggestions of other informants and the synagogue location.

Kerler and Lemster talk with Hesed staff about who in town still knows Yiddish and where to go next. The woman says that her grandson studies Hebrew, not Yiddish, in the Jewish school, and that Yiddish was once taught in Russian letters. She has three children and seven grandchildren, some of them in Israel. A teacher and other elderly speakers are named as possible informants, and Lemster asks whether some Jews have no tie to Hesed. Kerler briefly explains the Yiddish letters.

Adds a recipe question, a Yiddish alphabet explanation and Kerler's search for the oldest speakers.

A Hesed social worker reads aloud a Yiddish poem about Jews speaking Yiddish all over the world, apparently reprinted in a local paper. She and the others discuss its author (the transcript is unclear) and recall an aunt who wrote letters from America in Yiddish.

Adds the discussion of the poem's author and the aunt's letters from America.

The formal interview begins with Gaiviker, aged 95, saying that he speaks Yiddish, Russian and Ukrainian. He lists battles he took part in from the first day of the war, among them Stalingrad, Kursk and Kharkiv, and says he was demobilized from Königsberg. He describes service with aviation ground crews and bombings, and the death of many comrades; Kerler insists the interview be in Yiddish.

Adds Gaiviker's own wartime account and Kerler's request for Yiddish only.

Gaiviker says his father was a barber and that he himself worked for more than sixty years as one, mostly in a central barbershop, and has been home for twenty-odd years. He mentions his wife of sixty-two years, a good cheder education including Rashi, a daughter and grandchildren in Israel. Sonya adds that a daughter lives in Russia. Kerler explains the project's aim of interviewing older Yiddish speakers about prewar history, and asks about the town's earlier name.

Adds Kerler's explanation of the project and the question about the town's former name.

Gaiviker gives his name, Naum Samoilovich, and his Yiddish name Nekhemye, after his grandfather taken into the tsarist army. His parents were Shmuel and Sosye; he lost his mother at six. Born in 1912, on the 27th of September, and he speaks of a jubilee this year. He talks about his hard life today, invalid status, and the loss of comrades.

Gaiviker recalls cheder with the teachers Motl the Black and Khayim from Medzhibozh, and attending prayer with his father. He mentions his stepmother and half-siblings, his youthful mischief, love of music and jazz, and bands passing through Proskuriv in the civil war years. He then complains about the hardship of old age and says he was hospitalized several times.

In 1930 (?) Gaiviker, as a bold young man, took a train to Moscow wanting to live in a big city. He was frightened on arrival, had no ticket home and stayed, working in barbershops; he was later sent to Berdychiv and drafted in 1934.

Gaiviker talks about the severity of peacetime army service in the 1930s: early rising, men who ran away or maimed themselves and were punished, and scarce food.

Gaiviker tells of living in Moscow, a fight at work and being jailed; he says the Jewish official in charge treated him more leniently. In 1933 he and others were sent out of Moscow under the passport regime. Back in Proskuriv he found no work and hunger, and he sold his possessions.

Sonya tells of her husband's childhood: at the age of six he lived through the pogrom in the street where Jews lived. Her account describes hiding in the attic, bandits demanding gold, and the killed Jews found outside. Gaiviker adds that later the Poles came and took his father away for a time.

Adds Sonya's narration, the street where they lived and the later arrival of Poles.

Gaiviker recalls cheder: the teachers Motl and Khayim of Medzhibozh, a teacher's wife, the whip, and a prank of tying a sleeping teacher's beard to the table. He says he studied the siddur and Humash but remembers little. He remembers visiting cantors, among them Shulman and Borskii (?), and singing next to the cantor as a boy. He adds his fear of horses in the cavalry.

Gaiviker describes his cavalry service in the mid-1930s: waking at six in freezing cold, feeding and grooming horses, and how he did not desert because a Jew should not. He then returned to work.

Asked about Jewish holidays in the shtetl, Gaiviker mentions Yom Kippur fasting, Rosh Hashanah and Shavuot. He recalls his father keeping the Sabbath and visiting cantors on holidays. Kerler then proposes a break and a switch to interviewing his wife.

Sonya gives her name, her maiden name Sosne and her birth year, 1920, and says her father was Volk. She contrasts her family's comfortable life with her husband's: a horse, a cow, a large courtyard, plenty of food and helping others. Her parents, a brother and the whole family were killed by the Germans in 1942; her father worked with horses, her mother Khane baked twice a week, and the whole family met on holidays.

Adds the Yiddish word for a teamster being asked and the killing site.

Sonya describes how her family baked matzo at home, with her old grandfather at the oven and the five children helping, and how the family waited for the father at the seder. The home was strictly kosher, and she learned cooking and baking from her mother.

Sonya explains how she makes sweet-and-sour meat and says that her great-grandchildren in kindergarten asked why the teachers did not cook like their grandmother.

Sonya describes how she makes gefilte fish, removing bones, chopping and adding onion, eggs, pepper and matzo meal. Kerler asks whether the fish is sweet or salted and what it is called, and she describes meat with plums and cookies with raisins. Everyone, including her great-grandchildren and a Christian son-in-law, loves her food. She then mentions the family's hard life today, her husband's invalid pension and small payments.

Adds the terminology questions about fish and the turn to pensions at the end.

Sonya briefly continues about pensions for war invalids and the president in Kyiv, and says that the amounts remain small.

Sonya says she studied for ten years in a Yiddish school, from beginning to end, before it was closed before the war. Lemster and Kerler ask about books, and the passage ends with talk of opening a window.

Adds that the school closed before the war.

Talk about the streets where the couple lived, with Sonya naming the street names. Kerler and Lemster then ask whether Gaiviker remembers Yiddish songs from earlier times; he answers that times have changed and mentions Jewish artists who came to perform.

Gaiviker says he no longer remembers the old songs and speaks of Yiddish theater troupes that came to the town and Yiddish theater he saw in Moscow, naming actors he admired. He recalls Polish-Jewish performers, music and dancing, and how as a poor young man he sneaked into shows without a ticket.

names actors and performers; mentions Moscow

Gaiviker recounts his army route, crossing the Volga and Stalingrad, then through Belarus, the Neman, Kaunas and Vilnius to East Prussia, before demobilization. He says his medals are from Stalingrad and talks about reaching age 95. Kerler then asks about the number of synagogues.

Gaiviker describes the many prewar synagogues and small prayer houses, near one of which he lived, and says he prayed in all of them. Kerler asks what a "heymishe shul" means, and Gaiviker lists the trades of the town (tailors, shoemakers, hairdressers, tinsmiths). Asked about Purim, he remembers little, and Sonya recalls her grandfather Meir's synagogue visits and the pastries he brought. He mentions that his father opened a hairdressing shop where he learned his trade.

adds the discussion of what Purim-shpil meant and Sonya's grandfather Meir

Gaiviker speaks about trades, then says that during the civil war a pogrom took place in 1919, with shooting between the houses and killing of old people and children. He mentions his father and aunt who, according to the transcript, ended up in Uzbekistan.

mentions his father and aunt in Uzbekistan

Gaiviker says his father and aunt died in evacuation in Uzbekistan, and tells how he met his future wife after the war through a soldier in Poland. He is thankful to her and says they have lived together since 1945, calling her a good Jewish soul.

Gaiviker explains there was no Jewish wedding with a chuppah because times were hard; after demobilization they registered and had a small party with friends. They have been married 62 years. Kerler then asks about how much Yiddish was heard on the street before the war.

Gaiviker says the town was mostly Jewish and Yiddish was spoken; he describes working as a barber in the park, serving Russians and Poles. He recalls the card games he played and the 52 and 21 games; he later went to Moscow and returned in 1933.

adds his time in Moscow and return in 1933 (?)

Both speakers say non-Jews knew Yiddish: a Gentile neighbor woman, Russian clients, and the children of Christian tenants. Sonya adds that her daughter was raised in Russian, knows no Yiddish, and the granddaughter also grew up in Russian.

Lemster asks whether they heard the first Ostrapol performance; Gaiviker says he has forgotten many stories and that he is the only person of his generation left. He recalls the war in aviation, the route through Stalingrad and Kaunas, and thanks his wife. Sonya notes his father died of hunger under occupation and comments on unrest in Ukraine today.

adds the father's death in occupation and Sonya's comment on current politics

Asked about Hasidim before the war, Gaiviker says old men were gathered for Saturday night in the synagogue, but he gives few details. He mentions going to the cinema and theater as a young man.

Gaiviker and Sonya speak about Jewish theaters and cinemas before the war and the cheerful life; he mentions visiting artists and the audience that was mostly Jewish, and the kosher butchers. Lemster asks about Sholem Aleichem in the town.

adds kosher butchers and Lemster's question about Sholem Aleichem; the film title is not clear in the transcript

Gaiviker says he served in Berdychiv for two years and describes it as a lively, very Jewish town, smaller than Khmel'nyts'kyy. He then talks about his health: he is nearly blind after an eye operation and hard of hearing, and walks with a stick. Kerler asks about rabbis.

Gaiviker recalls the rabbi and rebbetzin, the teaching of children and the many synagogues, and also Jewish thieves and pickpockets. He says the town was a cheerful place and answers whether he lost money at cards. Kerler asks about the word dybbuk.

Asked about the word dybbuk, Gaiviker says it means a bad person. He recalls being born into a poor home, his stepmother, the war and bombing, Hanukkah gifts and games, and latkes made from potatoes. The questions about shalakhmones and tatshikelekh are interleaved.

adds the dybbuk question, Hanukkah gelt and latkes, and shalakhmones

Sonya says her daughter and granddaughter both have Russian husbands, but the granddaughter kept some Sabbath observance and now lives in Israel. Gaiviker adds that people there go to synagogue and a rabbi is paid.

Gaiviker says he knew prayers and Kaddish well in his youth, learned well, and played pranks on the teacher with his whip. He describes the town's bakeries with bread and bagels and their prices. Kerler asks Sonya about her name and her mother's name.

adds the names discussion with Sonya and her mother

Sonya says she began working after the war in several places but became a housewife once they registered. Before the war she had studied at school until the war began.

The couple discuss books and Yiddish school, and how people come to congratulate Gaiviker on Victory Day. He says he is the only one of his age in the district and lists his medals, including Stalingrad and Latvia; a photograph is promised for later.

Lemster asks whether Gaiviker knows the word golem; he and Sonya say they never heard it. Gaiviker then describes games he played in his youth, with card games 21 and 52, a pot fire in the park, checkers and hide-and-seek, and how he got money from his stepmother. Lemster asks about songs about hairdressers and tailors.

Gaiviker recites a song about a tailor sewing all week, recalls young people gathering to sing Yiddish songs, and talks about fasting on Yom Kippur and going to pray with his father. Lemster says they will now talk with Sonya.

A questionnaire on forms and vocabulary: Lemster and Kerler ask for thanks, father and mother, sick, sleepy, peasant, and Lithuanian-Yiddish differences, and a sentence with 'whether or not'. Gaiviker also tells of his army years in Lithuania, Kaunas and Kaliningrad, being pelted with stones, and Berdychiv and its Jewish girls, and Sonya says her grandson lives in Israel. At the end he speaks of his wife's care and food he likes.

adds Lithuanian experiences and food preferences